Posts by Franklin Massey

39

4/15/11 Watchtower--quote on ministerial servants

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

so did anyone notice the statement on page 11, paragraph 11?

"if a brother has been baptized at least one year and to a reasonable degree meets the scriptural qualifications fo rministerial servants outlined at 1 timothy 3:8-13, he can be recommended for appointment.

" i thought paul specifically warned against appointing a "newly converted man"?

Franklin Massey

There is a big push in our circuit for "qualified men" to cover a plethora of responsibilites. The bar has indeed lowered as responsibilities that used to be "elders-only" are now being handled by ministerial servants. It's all downhill from there as many "servants-only" jobs are being handled by non-servants and sometimes even sisters.

miseryloveselders posted, "In harmony with the motive behind this article, being that they're desperate for men, its evident in our congregation. We have several men who want absolutely nothing to do with a formal title. A couple are already doing pretty much the work of a ministerial servant, but they don't want the title and the hassle that comes with it."

Same in my area. Also a lot of long-time MSs who continue to turn down the elder position when it is offered.

45

Only the Governing Body is the FDS

by Listener in

i hadn't noticed this before but the governing body is actually saying that they only are the faithful & discreet slave.. watchtower 2009 6/15 para 18 .

similarly, today a limited number of anointed men have the responsibility of representing the slave class.

they make up the governing body of jehovahs witnesses.

Franklin Massey

misery said, "I think to myself at times that, had I been familiar with the NT as a mature adult, and a couple JWs showed up at my door, and let just assume hypothetically speaking that I bit. Just assume that I bit long enough to entertain a bible study, and even attend meetings regularly. Eventually I'd be exposed to the F&DS doctrine, and I have a hard time believing that nobody in their right mind wouldn't question the lunacy of this doctrine. As a born-in during my teenage years I couldn't wrap my brain around this teaching. As an adult, I cannot wrap my head around it. The only difference now as an adult is when I try to accept this doctrine, my head starts to hurt. I know I'm not crazy, and I know there has to be other mature thinking Christians amongst the higher ups in this organization who have entertained themselves with the very question we're discussing."

So you fantasize about what it would be like if you weren't ever a JW and how you would view the, *ahem* unique, doctrines if they were presented to you now? Glad I'm not alone! I find this role play to be a good thought exercise to keep my mind sharp and not regress back to the indoctrination I've recieved my whole life.

One problem with long-timers/born-ins is that in everyday conversation, the FDS and Governing Body are often spoken of as one in the same. Add to that the idea that there is some sort of God-given magic that these men have. One big eye-opener for me was a talk by a GB member in which he candidly stated that the GB and the annointed are not necessarily granted any more Holy Spirit than the average publisher. There are WT articles that carry the same thought. I had heard this before but for some reason, I always ignored the implications of that comment, choosing instead to think that they must be getting a little extra power and direction. Turns out that it is another one of those old fashioned ideas that has lingered on in WT mythology.

77

I told my daughter I was leaving "the truth" this weekend.

by whathappened in

jw
friends

last week, i told you i was going to tell my daughter that i was leaving the truth this weekend and you all gave me sound advice.

but, i cannot keep a secret this heavy from the person i love most on this earth, my only daughter, who is beautiful inside and out.. well, i have always had an open and honest relationship with my daughter, and i guess it paid off.

this weekend i visited my daughter (who lives in another state) and i told her i was leaving "the truth.

Franklin Massey

*whew* That was powerful and moving. You had to make a tough call and it seems to have been the right one. Nicely done.

Thinking back to where my mind was a few years ago (heavily soaked in WT theology), you did a masterful thing by presenting only information from the WT publications. That being said, I think that Scott77's suggestion of "do not forget to encourage her to visit jwn.net for more updates. freeminds.org is also a good site too," is an unwise one at this stage. Granted, I don't know your daughter; but from your description above, I would allow her to ruminate on the info you presented to her and let it do the work for a while. No need to rush things. You were wise not to use the terms "cult" and "apostate." If you told her to visit these sites, where that language (and even harsher dialogue) is used, it could turn her off to the truths you already showed her.

My two cents, and all my best to you during this challenging time.

69

Could ''boredom'' at the Kingdom Hall be one reason why some members leave?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

you'll find boredom where there is the absence of a good idea earl nightingale quotes (us motivational writer and author, 1921-1989).

let's forget that most members leave due to the wrong beliefs,doctrines and practices of the wts!.

i was bored out of my mind from the repetitive: talks,prayers,ministry school demonstrations,field service talks(peddle magazines),assemblies,special talks and watchtower magazine study articles.

Franklin Massey

Recently appointed elder.

9

YouTube: A History of God, Part I

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

.

"i explain how i learned from a history of god by karen armstrong that the evidence indicates that the jewish concept of monotheism evolved from the syncretism of various polytheistic sources like canaanite and babylonian polytheism.".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlnnwbkmlbg.

Franklin Massey

I recommend a couple of similar books that shed brilliant light on early religion: Armstrong's Case for God and Robert Wright's The Evolution of God. Both well documented and balanced in their approach.

69

Could ''boredom'' at the Kingdom Hall be one reason why some members leave?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

you'll find boredom where there is the absence of a good idea earl nightingale quotes (us motivational writer and author, 1921-1989).

let's forget that most members leave due to the wrong beliefs,doctrines and practices of the wts!.

i was bored out of my mind from the repetitive: talks,prayers,ministry school demonstrations,field service talks(peddle magazines),assemblies,special talks and watchtower magazine study articles.

Franklin Massey

I agree that the highlights can be the best part of all of the meetings. Sometimes I hear a comment that actually took some thought to prepare, quotes from a secular source *gasp*, or goes way back into older WT literature to present an alternate viewpoint on the material - and I think, "Could that person be 'enlightened' beyond standard WT teachings?" Of course, I never ask. I just commend them for doing extra research and encourage them to keep digging deep so that they can continue to share what they find with their friends.

3

Rebuttals: Irreducible Complexity

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

the latest video from qualiasoup.

refuting the fallacious criticism put forward against my recent video on irreducible complexity.. .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as1hlmyeh7q.

Franklin Massey

If modern day anti-evolutionists, who promote ideas like ID and irreducible complexity, traced those ideas back to where they came from, they would see how evolution works. Ancient stories crawled out of the primitive cultural soup, slowly adapted to their surroundings, underwent a couple of small mutations, and continue to adapt today.

55

Greetings to All, No Longer Lurking

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

claustrophobic.

that's the simplest way for me to express how i feel in the wt org.

like many here, my eyes were slowly opened over the years as i did more earnest research, trying to reconcile some long standing spiritual quandaries.

Franklin Massey

@yesidid: miseryloveselders has started a compelling and very accurate discussion on the KM school here:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/204237/1/Some-observations-from-the-KM-Elder-School-I-wanted-to-share-with-you

His notes and observations are strikingly similar to mine. These schools are conducted from outlines with very little room for ad-libbing.

55

Greetings to All, No Longer Lurking

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

claustrophobic.

that's the simplest way for me to express how i feel in the wt org.

like many here, my eyes were slowly opened over the years as i did more earnest research, trying to reconcile some long standing spiritual quandaries.

Franklin Massey

Again, thank you for the welcome messages.

Briefly, on the topic of reform, I see no reform coming. I have no plans of leading the charge. I am growing more and more comfortable with the idea of not having the Society and many of its teachings in my life. Unfortunately, many lovely people have become so dependant on this religion that I fear what their lives would be like if it all came crashing down on them. Some may be too weak to handle the total disintegration of the Org. These are the "Where else would I go?" types who may not have the inner strength to find themselves again. I struggle with the survival-of-the-fittest side of my personality vs. the fatherly nurturing side. For those who are weaker, I would rather see their chosen religion become better for them while simultaneously allowing those who wish to leave the opportunity to take a graceful bow and fade into the shadows. Thus concludes this portion of the pipe dream ;)

@GrandmaJones: You seem like a sweetheart. Your balanced viewpoints and love for your family are endearing. On what brought me here in the first place: False claims of Divine authority, faulty prophecies, fudged past teachings, flip-flopping doctrine, ignorance of science, comparative study of all the world's religions...that's a taste of what got me lurking and kept me lurking for so long. But I didn't want to jump all the way in as I still had feelings of loyalty to the Org. "What if I'm deluded? Am I being selfish? Am I being too critical? Is Satan really working on me through this site?" I just wasn't ready to join. I read the whole of JWFacts and CoC. Still lurking. But I haven't felt like a "proper" JW for quite some time now. What prompted me to finally join the forum was the education issue at KM School. I was like, "OK. This is just getting ridiculous." I needed to vent. I needed to be a part of the dialogue. I wanted to post my take on issues in hopes that other questioning JWs may see it and take a new course of action all their own.

@Cadellin: I have the same struggle in field service. My ministry has become personal visits, Bible-only discussions with very little literature placements, and broad discussions on all-encompassing spiritual/moral themes. This is certainly not what the Society has in mind for its publishers. I have no intention of indoctrinating anyone with JW theology. In fact, part of my awakening came while conducting Bible Studies in the Bible Teach book. Feeding people with promises that I myself was unsure of became impossible for me. I felt like a hypocrite.

@BlackSheep: I don't blame myself, or anyone for that matter. I just know how my immediate departure would be percieved and how those close to me would feel. When it comes to devout JWs, there is just no other possible way of life and if I can keep family and friends from being distraught and hurt by my actions, I will. The time is not right...yet. I don't want to burn bridges with those whom I may be able to help.

@LongHairGal: I'm sure there are many lurkers out there. Just looking at the amount of page views that some of these posts get is evidence of that. This site is not very interesting for someone who knows very little about JWs. If you come here, you likely have some sort of tie to the Org.

Welcome HayDay! I know that feeling all too well.

55

Greetings to All, No Longer Lurking

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

claustrophobic.

that's the simplest way for me to express how i feel in the wt org.

like many here, my eyes were slowly opened over the years as i did more earnest research, trying to reconcile some long standing spiritual quandaries.

Franklin Massey

Thank you for the warm greetings.

@zeroday: Exactly. Once my eyes and mind were opened by my own doing, on my own time, there was no way I could dismiss everything I was seeing and learning.

@ onemore: I guess I do fall into the category of "conscious class." For me, its not about proving people wrong. In fact, it has been more beneficial for me to just help people work through their questions/issues and come to a realization on their own. If I can guide them in these tiny little awakenings, I will. They add up. I made the mistake of emphatically broadcasting some of my "revelations" in the beginning and it just scared people and turned them off. My method now is one of patience, restraint, and more patience.

@stuckinamovement: The new book (which I saw online before I saw one on real life!) was not as big of a deal to me as some have made it. I can obviously see the tightening up taking place but the changes weren't that earth-shattering. I have to remind myself that the powers-that-be know they need to be careful not to make too many changes, of too large a size, too fast, for fear that there will be a mutiny. That's not to say that some brothers haven't mentioned certain aspects of the book that caught their eye. When they mention them, I ask, "Why do you think they made that change? How do you feel about it personally?" and then let them talk openly.